BYW vs. Indy

Liam 'The llama' Doran wrote:

RexRansome wrote:

And about that mask, you should never be ashamed of where you got your start. Remember, BYW is a home away from home.

amen 2 that

its nothing to do with shame its about protecting my spot. At the end of the day backyard wrestling is a crime against wrestling and if i get caught breaking the rules I could be alienated or banished.

And that was a reason when i was training to get into the indies in the UK i deleted ALL and i mean ALL of my BYW videos off youtube... there is still one because of some idiot but i can't do anything about that... i just didn't want people to see that and be like oh look at karl the idiot

i used to work for an indie fed the taped all their events and sold them on dvd and vhs. the company that dose the recording is called digital horizens. so none of the events matches go unoticed or the stars in the matches

WrestlingAGW,

I want to get clarification on this, so I am breaking it down by replying to your statement.

[quote] its nothing to do with shame its about protecting my spot. At the end of the day backyard wrestling is a crime against wrestling and if i get caught breaking the rules I could be alienated or banished.[quote]

Is this company properly licensed? If so, not following rules would classify you as an employee (if England follows independent contractor labor laws) one thing people fail to understand is that anywhere you go, if you are "trained" to work and if they control your behavior/results/methods of outcome, you are a employee....You have leverage there if they start shit with you. (WWE won the battle only because Raven filed a few years after and they were under a contract....Waivers don't constitute as a contract, only a release of liability. Even then Waivers are NOT bullet proof.)

Protecting your spot? Is this company nationally recognized? If not, then it's mostly workers family and friends with a few fans watching. Basically in a nutshell its no different than BYW.



Carl Robbin,

[quote] And that was a reason when i was training to get into the indies in the UK i deleted ALL and i mean ALL of my BYW videos off youtube... [quote]


Seriously? Why in the hell would you delete your memories over a business that is a scam? That's just crazy in my book, I never once deleted anything nor was hiding to protect my image as a promoter. I knew it was corrupt and I say unless you are wrestling for a development company; any other Indy promotion will not be taken serious. However; even with a developmental company its never guarantee to get hired on WWE. I only knew a few local guys that got to wrestle dark matches or referee; so in my opinion you want that fame and money get a real job.

Sadly, that is the hard reality of it. You have to think really hard how many people totaled in this world are workers, so the chance is like winning the lottery. Yeah, it's fun to go out there and see a crowd cheer, no different than you can have at your show, just don't charge you don't want police showing up LOL. But don't let me discourage you; if that is something you want to have as a hobby/career than by all means do it. I just try to teach people the truth about how this business truly works. I am at least happy to be able to pass the message, I know I saved a 18 year old boy $1,800 dollars on Pro-Training he took my advice and did his homework making sure that company was legal and had all of its license/permits.

He ended up buying a ring and become good friends with a few indy guys that needed ring time and trained him for the usage of his ring....can't beat saving that kind of money. He reported the company to the State Attorney General; I was just informed that city and state have talked to that company and it seems they are shutdown after 10 years of illegally operating and not paying taxes.


If anyone needs help understanding the legality of Pro Wrestling in USA, let me know. I want to help as much as I can.



Yes I am re-editing what I wrote, I want to add this to help jump start your homework:

*Check with your State’s Secretary to see if they are licensed as a business. Remember charging admission you have to pay taxes and file contractors with a 1099 form if they make over 600 annually.

*Secondly, call the Athletic Commission to verify their license to do wrestling in the state and make sure they have a permit too.

*Call the IRS to find out if they have a EIN number, this is another tactic that will help you. That EIN is a number that will allow you to hire people, its part of taxes.

*Thirdly, Check with your local BBB and see if they are even listed. See what their ratings are.


*Last but least, if you know their real names use a public background check and see what dirt you get. If some have felonies and you know when they are booked at next contact local authorities and Attorney general.


***Don't let the good ole'boy talk convince you to join: "We been rassling thirty years; been trained by (long winded list), been a champion ( long winded list), we have the experience to get you in WWE or booked here locally." - If its a sales pitch, lose them. You would end up paying for his apartment rent that is due soon.


What they should say: "Right here is all of our required licenses/permits and references to insure (company name) legality, here is my trainers information, a list of students that completed, and a detailed packet about our school and tuition." - If its not pushy and welcomes choice and providing documentation it might be worth the time.

damn man thats some knowledge there... ill have to use that there is a dude thats been trying to get me to train with them and his school i inquired about.

and for the last month or so i told him i dont have a job right now i cant afford it and it was something like 100$ to try out not gaunteeing that youd make it to the next level and it was 1200 for an entire year and he was just relentless not to mention i told him of past and previous training and he told me that i have to forget all of that im starting from scratch. and i know they are legit they have been for years since iwas like 7 than the company went under new ownership and thats where this dude comes in at.

as opposed to yarding i can leran a little from this person that person and my self without haveing to pay and hold my own shows with out haveing to worrie about all sorts of legal issues you know.

Well,

Psychotic, I used to be a Promoter in Professional Wrestling. I did backyard from 1998-2008. I learned a lot about Pro and after seeing so many young guys treated like crap and ripped off, I think its time someone educates people about it.

So, he said to pay $100.00 (typical in most schools) and total is $1,200? So, what if you pay the full amount prior and what if the year is over and your still learning...another $1,200? Is there any payment agreements? If so, don't sign until you fully read it. Do you get a refund and seeing how there no guarantee on your next level might be a red flag if he can't work with you to get you there.

Unless you are psychically or mentally not able to learn; why couldn't you get there...is he going to "over-train" you to a point of quit? If so, is he certified to administer first aid and CPR? believe it or not, if you are training students most state/local requirements for you to have or be certified. Now most recently in Hamilton, Ohio I heard if you call yourself a "trainer" and you go apply for a occupancy for your building you have to have some kind of documentation (ie: college or licensed/certification) to give local zoning/health departments.

Yes, they want you to "clear" your mind from what you were doing in the Yard, because its not (according to them) the proper way to wrestle......isn't funny that when you ask them what is the proper way you always seem to hear: "Well, ring psychology and bumping" To tell a believable story, how to build a match, selling, etc? Oh, and the bumping......lets just purchase Ultimate Pro Wrestling Training DVD ( All 3 series, I recommend this ) for 20 bucks at Amazon online. The trainer on that DVD is Tom Howard, look him up.


Now believe it or not, even though I was a promoter I attended training too and I will admit that everything they show is the exact shit I learned and not to mention I showed it to a student who was trained by Abyss (AKA Prince Justice) trainer in Cincinnati, Ohio and he said it was the same shit and he was upset for paying two thousand dollars.

If they are legit because of the years in the business, I would still get online and search business license information....its no different than picking your college. You want to make sure its not a diploma mill school.

and everything you just stated there is all the truth man i agree with you 100%. and i do belive there were payment arrangements im not sure it was all last month.

but the dude was not refunding nor was the other indy fed i trained with. tbh the other fed i trained with last year did work me to the point that i threw up had an asthma spell and no inhaler and i do not belive any of them were cpr certified all the did was tell me to sit out the rest of the day and gave me a bottle of water but with expiriance in how to get my spells to stop i was able to get them to stop.

and alot of what they did was make us run up a huge ass hill around a tree and down with only 10 seconds to breathe and do it again. than went to a baseball feild made us do suicide sprints than took us back to the venue made us run around the venue than put us in the ring and made us train.

and i was paying 300$ a week for this shit. so to me some people may not agree and some may agree... but imo i was paying 300$ a week to be tourtured. than the dude that got me in said ok i want to establish your character since they took me pretty much because my dad supported this indy fed since i was like nee high... but they kept putting me in spot after spot after spot and every time i would ask whats the deal with all the spots they said your not ready your not ready i mean i aced every single bump flat back and all i aced every single move exept for a few small moves that if sold right would not have made a differeance but yet untill i lost my job id pay 300$ a week to go through the same tourture routine and was told they wanted me to establish my character and what not and they never did.

but the worst part of it all was when they told me that they made it seem as if i was going to be in a match soon so i went out when i was still working for oreck and bought my self a 134$ pair of red and white wing tip boots since my ethnic background is mexican and than after loseing my job i could not pay and was out.

so i went back to yarding and here i am today still clawing for a job and still have the same pair of boots that i only used 4 shows i did for my fed in one month and thats pretty much the expiriace i had with them. so i mean call that one how you want it may have seemed different to me being i was the one training or i am right on what i seen it as.

so thats alot of the reason i stray away from the indies right now and am working on my own thing i mean if yarding is all ill ever do... well than it had better become a legal wrestling circut and fast lol

asthma spell and no inhaler - If there were a refrigerator; you should have stuck your head in the freezer for a few...our EMT helped some boy out that way.


$300.00 a week?? That's a lot of money to run around trees and up and down a hill. I mean honestly, you could of walked outside and did that for free. Why don't they have a GYM or a discount program with a local GYM? I think you was filling up his pocket for personal gain, he took advantage of you. Above all sounds like a horrible trainer and booker. Why would he run you to death and then start working on a character if you did not complete training? I understand your Father might helped them around, but still that's like throwing someone in a river without a life jacket.

Spot-after-spot = We know he's not ready, so we please him enough to take more money next week.

BYW can't be legalized to much; unless you turn it into a semi-professional registered business. If you do that you might chance wrestlers leaving because its "serious" and not "fun." I have heard of states banning BYW, but never seen any real documentation on it. It would be like banning backyard football...

I am sorry to hear what happened. I am here if you have any questions, I hope that I can help you and anyone else you wrestle with in the BYW.

thanks man you are a better teacher than alot of the other forums i have been on. im on one called the nbwa and they do nothing but disrespect me on there. i mean baseing how good i am off of some shit i did in 2009 and because i did not do anything in 2010 i have no proof im as good as i say i am.

than tell me that hardcroe style wrestling is dead and all of this shit. pretty much they want me to chow them respect but at the same time talk everyone on that site up like they are some big time players. now ill admit they got some good dudes on there and ill give them respect where it is do but in the same breath im not going to sit there and tell the others that are no good what they want to here because you think they are good.

basicly imo from what i have seen in the months of being a part of that forum is that the dude running it is kissing ass to make his forum the best because he wants something better than gbywn and he wants the best forum on the net... like you have been prety much like me i started yarding in 97 and have been ever since and i never in my life heard of the bwe and the hwo with dudes called stone hardy steven hardy the freak and all of these people.

one dude said he worked a show in 115 dagree wether and the other said he worked one in 113 dagree wether. and their spelling is basicly butchering the english language i mean mine is not the best grammer but at least you know what im saying.

and they are from shreevsport so i understand they may sound a bit on the hick side of things but butchering the english language on the net lol... and i told them time and time again i am as good as i say i am and shit and i also told them in the same breath that im not the best at what i do but you never stop learning in this sport/business/industry/entertainment.

ive invited them to a countless nuber of super shows and said you dont got to be good you dont have to be great you dont have to be at a pro level or a chaining master or chain at all as long as your haveing fun the fans are entertained it dont get out of hand and you make it look good you are welcome to attend one of my super shows but because they can chain and they are big in their states and they have this im better than you your dirt beneath my shoe complex they turn down my super shows and they expect me a man who is married with 3 children to pay for their travel.

im the type of guy that runs the type of yard fed like this... as long as your haveing fun as long as no one gets hurt and as long as it looks good and the fans are pleased im happy because correct me if i am wrong but i do belive thats how byw started out a bunch of friends seen it on tv thought it would be fun to get out there and do it...monkey see monkey do and tham boom byw sweeps the globe.

all i know is i am good i trained all of my guys we have fun doing what we love to do any yarder no matter how good or how bad not matter what style wrestling you do is welcome to attend one of my shows because as long as your there to have fun and make friends and entertain than thats all that matters.

i mean if im wrong do feel free to stop this rant lol but thats just my opinion on what byw is all about.

Interesting enough I am married with three children too. I remember when the BYWLINK would host supershows; a lot of them had to be on the special list to join each show, mainly you had to meet their criteria.

I feel BYW took a turn for the worst, a lot of people get some inside knowledge about the pro level and then use it against other backyarders' wrestling performances, etc. I also think that a lot of backyarders use excuses to much like: "I'm 20 now and I am getting to old." So would that constitute playing backyard football to?

I don't try to go on here and make myself better, I try to help people learn from the mistakes I made and to be careful. I returned to backyard this year, I am still young and ready to have more fun at 29 years old.

Hardcore ( my opinion): I think that if you can incorporate it in a believable story-telling match I would root for it, but because it dented the foundation of BYW for so many years I try to personally stray away from using it. Anyone can pick a chair up and swing it, but can you artistically use it? Now, though that is my opinion, I respect anyone who wishes to conduct hardcore matches.

Nothing is dead: I had to explained about this forum not being dead. You got to find ways to motivate people and spark interest if you want to bring back something.

Wrestling in weather conditions: Though I had my fair share of doing it and often watching it I can see my determination was stronger than ever. But because I am in my mid-twenties I don't want to chance getting the flu or something server. I respect anyone that will grab a camera and film in 20 degree weather, I did it. I always said you gotta have a strong determination to keep BYW alive a well.

and i agree strongly with you man and im learning more now talking to you the last few days than i have ever in any other forum mainly because of like you said they picked something up off the pro level and used it against me all the time as i picked up pro level stuff.

i worked my first indy fed at 18 years of age trained while 17... but never have i ever used it against anyone.

im hopeing to get a super show put together this year and hopefully get some people to work it this spring and your more than welcome to come to it if youd like.

[quote="RexRansome"]WrestlingAGW,

I want to get clarification on this, so I am breaking it down by replying to your statement.

[quote] its nothing to do with shame its about protecting my spot. At the end of the day backyard wrestling is a crime against wrestling and if i get caught breaking the rules I could be alienated or banished.[quote]

Is this company properly licensed? If so, not following rules would classify you as an employee (if England follows independent contractor labor laws) one thing people fail to understand is that anywhere you go, if you are "trained" to work and if they control your behavior/results/methods of outcome, you are a employee....You have leverage there if they start shit with you. (WWE won the battle only because Raven filed a few years after and they were under a contract....Waivers don't constitute as a contract, only a release of liability. Even then Waivers are NOT bullet proof.)

Protecting your spot? Is this company nationally recognized? If not, then it's mostly workers family and friends with a few fans watching. Basically in a nutshell its no different than BYW.

[quote]

Yes the company is nationally recognised. We draw up to 1000 people a show. We are technically a lot bigger than the likes of ROH, CZW, Chikara etc. As we put on over 150 shows a year and tour all over. I agree those crappy little shows are no different to BYW, never really seen the point in them. not real pro wrestling, mostly the ''workers'' dont even get paid.

The CZW guys are paid.. right...? O.o

if you are talking about combat zone wrestling i do belive they are paid. dont quote me on that but im almost sure of it

They seriously need to be payed. They do some sick stuff...

they do when i had cabel a few years back and first got married and lived with my mom in like 2006 and 2007 is when i came across the czw... and id watch it every night it was on.

they were prime example of what hardcroe was about imo i think they were better and more extreme than the old ecw.

lol i werent referring to CZW, ROH and Chikara being little, crappy and unpaid, I was talking about the majority of US indie though.

oh lol than i will agree with you on that for sure. some indies in the us your lucky to make 100$ at most 20-50$ at least i know i have worked some that were like that and worked one where i did not get paid at all.